| Author | Message | ||
     goatfarmer |
My G850, (yellow 1755), is not operating in direct drive. Going down hill it free wheels on while pulling it doesn't change speed from under drive to direct drive. It "jumps" to overdrive. Is my unit going bad? Can I operate it this way for a time, or should I stop to prevent further damage? | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
It sounds like the direct drive clutch pack has either blown sealing rings and is leaking too much oil to lock in, or has a stuck piston not letting it engage. Take a look at the oil, does it look dark or has a burnt oder? Could have burned up the clutch pack. Give me a few days to see if your unit has the same pressure ports as our 4-210's have. If they do you can connect a pressure gauge and see if it devolops pressure in direct or not. If it doesn't then it has blown sealing rings and can be used for now. | ||
| goatfarmer |
It was low on oil and I added some, but didn't detect a burnt odor, though it was dark. I have run my 1755 for years, and never had to add oil, so this took me by surprise. Thanks for checking on the pressure ports for me. Look forward to hear from you. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
I know I had a manual for the '55 series around here somewhere, always the first one off the shelf when I didn't need it. Anyways while I'm checking on the location of the pressure port go ahead and drain the oil out off it and see if there is any metal shavings on the drain plug. Go ahead and change the filter too, if you don't find any shavings I would think it would be alright to use for awhile on light duty. | ||
| goatfarmer |
Thanks. I will take your advice. | ||
| goatfarmer |
M Lappin I just changed the oil, and yes there were metal shavings on the oil plug. Bummer! I am told that it could be $2000.00 to fix that unit. Is this true? Please help. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
Yeah, they are pretty expensive to rebuilt, but if done right will last a long time. Just rebuilt a unit in a 4-210 we bought for half price because it wouldn't move. Had a little over $4100 in just parts, and that was with a cash discount and a open house discount on top of that. Did the labor ourselves. I have never had one lose direct though, under a few times, over and under once, but never direct. How ambitious are you? If you don't think you can handle rebuilding it yourself, it is kind of like a automatic without the torque converter, reverse, nuetral, or park, It will save you a little money if you can pull the motor yourself and take just the unit to the dealer. Anyways good luck. | ||
| Chris Losey (Admin) |
I have the over/under out of my 4-225, and I am looking at about $2000 in parts myself. I have rebuilt enough of these to tell you that while the other ranges may work, that metal floating in the oil is not doing you any favors, and may end up costing you more money. But on the other hand, if you can't get your farm work done, it may cost you more in lost productivity than the extra parts are worth. I have seen the teeth on the direct drive clutch discs get so worn that they eventually break off. This would keep direct for working. When this happens, the grooves they leave on the input shaft are usually bad enough that the input shaft will need replacing. Maibach's (800-808-9934) usually have rebuilt ones on hand, so that would make for a speedy fix. Let us know what you find out. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
Hey Chris, the one in the 4-210 we bought last year literally blew apart. Had several inches of shrapnel in the bottom of the case. New everything except the input shaft and housing. Anyways, today, after planting over 200 acres of beans after the rebuild, father shifted from direct to over and had nothing after that. Put a screwdriver up against the case and listened while he shifted through the ranges. Had no abnormal noise and could tell by the change in tone that it was shifting, drained and checked the oil, still nice and clean, no discoloration, and 0 metal. Question is this, have you personally ever had the splines on the input shaft or one of the hubs in the transmission strip out? Before we bought this tractor that was one of the things the service manager at our local dealer thought was wrong with it. | ||
| Chris Losey (Admin) |
Mine had some of the teeth come off the gear that bolts to the planetary carrier. Enough so that the power would no longer go through the unit. Worst part is the teeth chewed up the countershaft as they went through it, and AGCO says it will be August before they have more of them. So far, no luck finding used one or one in dealer inventory. The one in the 4-210 is the super duty over/under, and the 4-225 is the extra heavy duty unit, but they are interchangeable as a complete unit. The only other problem (besdies the O/U) we've had is the hub on the main clutch discs cracked, and they wouldn't move on the input shaft, and therefore wouldn't release. So you'd press the clutch pedal, but the tractor would just keep on going. This O/U problem I have now is the first time I've had one that wouldn't move under it's own power. I'm not sure what happened to yours. Something may have happened to the shaft that goes between the o/u and the tranny input. I haven't heard of one having that problem, but there aren't alot of these tractors around here to get feedback on. I can take pictures of my 4-225 if that will help. The motor is still out of it, so I can get right in there to get some good pics. The tranny parts should be the same. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
I shouldn't need any pics, wasn't that long ago that I had the tranny cover off. I just can't believe that it could be anything in the O/U, if I didn't get something together right in it, I wouldn't think it would be as quiet as it was and still ran as long as it did, also no metal in the oil. Have no ideal the actual hours on this tractor as I'm sure that the hour meter has been replaced, only shows 900 hours but a Cat reman was put in in 98 according to the records from the local cat dealer. Agco pulled the same on me in Febuary when I had this one apart, had to wait about 5 weeks to get the sun gear shaft. Our shop isn't big enough to get two tractors in at once for major overhauls, so our 2255 is still froze in 3rd gear. AS long as nothing happens to the 4-175 or the 4-150 we should be able to get done allright. Of course you know the 4-210 couldn't break close to home, about 12 miles away. Probaly will drag it home today, and get it back in the shop ASAP. I have about 150 acres of stalks to chiesel as soon as the exhaust coupler comes in for the 4880. Then the hired man can finish the ground while father plants. Want to get the 4-210 back apart and see if we had a bad part, or if something was not heat treated right. Want to know what happened so maybe I can sleep a little better. Anyways gonna stop now or I could ramble on all day. | ||
| Chris Losey (Admin) |
I was a little luckier. My 4-225 gave out right by the driveway, right across the road from the workshop. Looks like we are going to be able to get by without the 4-225. But the 2-155 is getting some extra hours this year. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
The only time something breaks that close to home for me is when it is something that hardly ever leaves here. Forklift, backhoe, lawnmowers, you know. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
What does the 4-225 use for power? Is it still the 3208? Turbocharged or not? One other question, what does the 4-175 have for the O/U? When we got ours a few years ago father went ahead and had the pump turned up to 210. Personally I thought he should have just had the injectors checked and the pump put on a test stand and left it at 175 HP. Then again it is his tractor, so each to their own. | ||
| Chris Losey (Admin) |
The 4-225 uses the 3208 with a turbo. The 4-175 has the super duty o/u, should be almost the same as the 4-210, but a slightly different input shaft, since the 4-210 has a 2 disc clutch, and the 4-175 has a single disc clutch. So with the exception of the clutch, the 4-175 and 4-210 are the same from the motor to the back of the o/u. After that, it's a different story. The tranny and final drives are pretty much the same as a beefed up 2-105, with 3 disc dry brakes. The 4-175 is an updated version of the 4-150. They switched from using PTO horsepower (150) to flywheel horsepower (175) to get the model number. They also totally redesigned the articulation joint for the 4-175. It should be the same as the one on the 4-210, and much better than the one on the 4-150. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
No doubt. The pivot on our 4-150 has been rebuilt before, but the holes where the pins go thru the actuall frame are egg shaped. If we decide to keep it any longer, we are going to try to find center on all the holes and cut bigger holes and turn bushings on the lathe to weld into the new holes. Difference is night and day between the pivots and it sure doesn't take a lot of wear to make a rough ride. | ||
| Chris Losey (Admin) |
There was some kind of update kit offered for the 4-150 articulation joint at some point in the past. I remember putting in at least one at our dealership. We had another one come in to get new drive shafts, and that one was so loose that when you let up on the clutch pedal, the whole tractor would hump up in the middle, raising the cab several inches. Talk about an interesting ride. Kinda felt like driving an inchworm. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
Supposedly this tractor had all the updates installed before we bought it. Ours doesn't do the inch worm, but if you have anything on the 3-point when it lifted off the ground you can feel something similiar. Dealership huh? Kind of wondered, where is it located at? | ||
| Ian C. Campbell (Ianc) |
There wre three main updates to the 4-150. The "ball joint" in the lower pivot was replaced with a bigger unit, the "w" shaped link on the upper pivot had some modifications, and the "quil shaft support" between trans and over/under. I think I "liberated" copys of those bulletins when the dealership I worked for went out of business as Dad and I were looking at getting one. Eventually found a 4-175 for what 4-150's were bringing locally.I'll try and see if I've still got them. | ||
| goatfarmer |
Okay guys, I got my engine out and ready to tear into the Hydraul Unit. Is there anything else I should be checking besides since I have the engine out? Thanks. | ||
| Chris Losey (Admin) |
I would pull the clutch and get it checked out, and would even consider putting in a new rear main seal on the enigine. It sure isn't going to get any easier than this to get to them. Regardless of what you find, I would put in a new pilot and throwout bearing. Also, I would put on a new set of sprockets and chain coupler. M_lappin, we closed our dealership in June of 98. We were located 7 miles west of Springport, MI, which is about 35 south of Lansing. We still own the dealership building, and I hope to use it to display the old Olivers someday. I need to do some rearranging in there first. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
When you put the motor back in check the alignment of the sprockets between the O/U and transmission. Our 1855 lines up perfect, but our 1600 needed shims under the rear of the motor as the sprocket on the O/U was lower the the trans. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
Got thinking about it and our 4-175 has hydraulic brakes on it. Look to be about the same unit as our 1855 or 2255. Same parking brake setup too, much prefer the setup on the 4-210 with the park built into the gearshift. The "help?" can't try to drive to the next county with the parking brakes locked on it at least. | ||
| M_lappin (M_lappin) |
Hey goatfarmer, when you get into the O/U look real close at the area where the sprag clutch runs on the output shaft. My rebuild manual says it should show NO wear. If this gets too wore, even with a new sprag in it you still won't have under. This can be a pretty salty part, ours was almost $1100 for a new output shaft. Also look at the splines on the input shaft on the transmission. The first time I had our 1600 apart for a clutch job I pulled the sprocket off the transmission and the splines were so wore that if you would have grabbed the shaft to try and turn it, it would have been like grabbing a handful of razor blades. Had to take it look at it as the previous owners had tried and failed at welding the sprocket to the input shaft. As my grandfather would have said 'Some peoples kids should never be allowed near a welder.' | ||
| Chris Losey (Admin) |
He's right about the where the sprag runs on the output shaft. The book says .0005" of tolerance. Half of a thousandth of an inch. Basically, if you can feel an edge with your fingernail on that surface, it's worn too much. |
